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Shamoun's Lowly Character

Sam thinks he can beat everyone in a debate and that he has already done so. Things have not even happened yet he can predict with certainty outcomes. He thinks no one can answer him. Check out a list of answers right here.

Tuesday, October 4, 2011

My discussion with Wesley of Nation of Islam, after which I was blocked

Thanks to brother Waqar - Alhamdulilah, he was able to pull off the article and discussion that I was blocked from by Wesley NOI, who claims Allah came in the form of a man, kind of like what Christians believe.  They just changed the color.  After Quoting Quran and Sunnah just as discussion, and most likely readers realizing the truth, he decided to block me saying THAT I'M NOT ALLOWED TO PREACH ON HIS PAGE.  lol 
Here is his articles and all the comments that came with it... Brother Waqar and I are writing an article which will not only refute his but will expose his ACADEMIC TWISTING.  

Whenever I or a colleague such as Tariq Berry or Dana Marniche recites the clear evidence that the Prophet Muhammad of Arabia was a black-skinned Arab, inevitably someone – most often a Muslim – claims that such a discussion is useless at best or un-Islamic at worst. It is claimed that, because Allah is not a respecter of person and Islam is a religion for all peoples, there should be no discussion of the Prophet’s color. Islam, it is even alleged, does not sanction any interest in this matter of the Prophet’s skin color at all. Yet, the modern Iranian Shi’it shaykhs Maulana Muhammad Zakaria and Ahmed E. Bemat could claim in 2006 with all of the authority of their positions and having no reason to fear a backlash:

“the Holy Prophet’s (s) white complexion had a touch of redness and there was a luster in it…Hence the Imams have stated that ‘if someone says that the Holy Prophet’s (s) complexion was black, we will issue a fatwa of infidelity (kufr) for him because he insulted and disparaged the Holy Prophet (s) and the insulting and disparaging of a prophet amounts to infidelity…”  (in Shamail-e-Tirmizi, trans. Prof. Murtaza Hussain F. Qurashi [New Delhi: Kitab Bhavan, 2006] 3).

Similarly, internationally renowned Syrian (Sunni) scholar, Shaykh Muhammad al-Yaqoubi who teaches today at the Grand Umayyad Mosque in Syria, in the following video matter-of-factly informs us of the Prophet Muhammad that,

“His skin color was white, but not jet white…there was some redness on his skin…he had a touch of pink color…”

There are thousands of images of this ruddy white Muhammad throughout the Muslim world today, mainly but not exclusively in Iran and India.

Religious Painting from Persia of White Muhammad

The irony is that modern Muslim scholars like the above routinely proclaimed the ruddy whiteness of the Prophet’s skin, without being hounded by the objection: “It does not matter in Islam!” This objection seems reserved only for those who proclaim, based on overwhelming evidence, that the Prophet was in fact a black-skinned Arab and that this popular white-skinned Muhammad is an ethnocentric fiction authored by non-Arab converts to Islam.

The fact of the matter is, however, the color of the prophets, including and especially Prophet Muhammad, absolutely DID matter in pre-modern Islam. Indeed, it was an orthodox issue in Classical Islam, at least according to the Classical Arabic textual tradition.  We find for example the following hadith report in Sahih Bukhari, # 648:

“Ibn Umar narrated: the Prophet (s) said: “[During my Ascension to Heaven] I saw Moses, Jesus, and Abraham. Jesus was white-skinned (ahmar), curly haired with a broad chest; Moses was black-skinned (adam), straight-haired and tall as if he was from the people of al-Zutt.”

On this account it is popularly accepted that, while Moses was black-skinned, Jesus was white-skinned. However, Bukhari follows this hadith with another report (# 649, 650) that insists that this color allocation (for Jesus) is erroneous:

“Salim narrated from his father: ‘No, By Allah, the Prophet (s) did not say that Jesus was white-skinned but said: ‘While I was asleep circumambulating the Ka’ba (in my dream), suddenly I saw a black-skinned man (rajul adam) with straight hair walking between two men, and water dripping from his head. I asked who he was, and the men said he is the Son of Mary (Jesus). Then I looked behind and saw a white-skinned man (rajul ahmar), fat, curly-haired and blind in the right eye which looked like a bulging grape. I asked whom he was and they said, ‘This is al-Dajjal’.”’”

In other words, the white-skinned man seen in Prophet Muhammad’s vision was not Jesus, who was seen as a black-skinned man, but al- Dajjal. There is even a variant of this hadith, reported for example by Ali Qawi al-Harawi (d. 1605) in his commentary on al-Tirmidhi’s famous al-Shama’il al-Muhammadiyah, according to which Muhammad said regarding Jesus: “I saw a black-skinned man (rajul adam), the best one can see among black-skinned men.” Thus, Jesus and Moses would have been black-skinned men.

What is important here, however, is that in this most orthodox piece of Muslim literature besides the Qur’an, al-Bukhari’s Sahih, the skin color of the prophets Jesus and Moses are freely discussed and debated. One might ask: if it was perfectly Islamic for al-Bukhari to discuss the color of the Prophets – discussions, mind you, attributed to the Prophet and some of his key Companions - how did it become un-Islamic to discuss these matters today?

But Jesus and Moses are not Muhammad in Islamic tradition, despite the claim by this same tradition that all of the prophets are equal.  In Islamic tradition the Prophet Muhammad is enveloped in a robe of sacrality and holiness that no other Prophet shares. But this heightened sacredness of Muhammad did not make him less likely to be the topic of discussions about such mundane matters as skin color. On the contrary, detailed discussion of Muhammad’s physical appearance, including his skin color, is found in most of the most orthodox literatures – Sunni and Shi’ite alike. Ibn Sa’d (d. 845), for example, in his famous and important Kibab al-tabaqat al-kabir, devotes twelve pages to a chapter entitled, “[Reports] Mentioning the Description of the Physical Body of the Messenger of God (SAWS).” This chapter includes twelve hadiths reporting on the alleged complexion of the Prophet.

Ibn Sa’d, Kitab al-Tabaqat al-kabir

Likewise, al-Bukhari in his Sahih devotes a chapter to “[Reports Detailing] The Description of the Prophet,” which includes discussion of his skin color.  

Page From Bukhari

Muslim’s Sahih, Abu Dawud’s Sunan, Tirmidhi’s Jama’, Nasa’i's Sunan, Ibn Hanbal’s Musnad, al-Bayhaqi’s Dala’il al-nubuwwah, al-Baladhuri’s Ansab, Ibn Kathir’s, al-Bidayah wa-l-nihayah, just to name a few orthodox texts, all include discussions of the skin-color of the Prophet Muhammad.

Not only that. A whole literature developed whose chief purpose was the extolling of the physical and non-physical qualities of the Prophet. The most famous text of this genre is the al-Shama’il al-Muhammadiyyah (“The Noble Qualities of Muhammad”) by al-Tirmidhi (d. 892). This famous text opens with a discussion of the Prophet’s physical appearance, including his skin color. See for example the Table of Contents in the English translation of this text by Prof. Murtaza Hussain F. Qurashi: the opening section treats “The Physiognomy (i.e. physical appearance) of The Prophet.”

Table of Contents From  Shama’il

All of these literatures are within the orthodox Sunni tradition of the pre-modern period. They all make it abundantly clear that it was very “Islamic” to discuss the skin color and other physical traits of the prophets, especially the prophet Muhammad.  Thus, those who today argue that in Islam the color of the Prophet doesn’t matter can claim no authority from the Classical Islamic tradition for this position.    

2.] Muhammad’s Color According to the Classical Islamic Tradition

Al-Tirmidhi, in his Jami’ al-Sahih (VI:69 no. 1754), reports on the authority of the famous Companion of the Prophet, Anas b. Malik:

“The Messenger of Allah was of medium stature, neither tall nor short, [with] a beautiful, dark brown-complexioned body (hasan al-jism asmar al-lawn). His hair was neither curly nor completely straight and when he walked he leant forward.”

This or a related report is found as well in Ibn Sa’d, Kitab al-tabaqat al-kabir, I/i, 123; Ahmad b. Hanbal, Musnad III: 969 no. 13854; al-Bayhaqi, Dala’il al-nubuwwah, I:203; Ibn Kathir, al-Bidayah wa-l-Nihayah, VI: 13. See also the following from Ibn Sa’d’s, Kitab al-tabaqat al-kabir, on the authority of Abd Allah b. Abbas:

“Yazid al-Farisi said: I saw the Messenger of God (s) in a dream during the time Ibn Abbas [was governor] over Basra. I said to Ibn Abbas: “I saw the Messenger of Allah (s) in a dream.” Ibn Abbas said: “Verily, the Messenger used to say, ‘Satan cannot assume my form, so he who saw me in a dream, surely had a vision of me.’ Can you describe to me what you saw?” [Yazid] said: “Yes, I [will] describe [him]. He was a man between two men. His body and flesh were brown and blemish-free with a sheen (asmar ila al-bayad), smiling, eyes with collyrium, features of his face beautiful. His beard was thick from this end to that, and (the man) pointed to his two temples with his hands. It was so thick that it covered his neck….” Thereupon Ibn Abbas said: “Had you seen him while awake, you could not have described him better than this.”    

According to these reports, which freely discuss the Prophet’s skin-color, the Prophet’s complexion was dark-brown. Ibn Sa’d reports another very interesting report on the authority al-Zubayr who reported on the authority of Ibrahim:

“The Messenger of Allah (s) stretched his left foot, such that the blackness of its exposed part (zahiruha aswad) was visible.” (Kitab al-tabaqat al-kabir, I/i,127)

Al-Tirmidhi reports in his al-Shama’il al-Muhammadiyyah (#1), on the authority of Anas b. Malik,

“The Messenger of Allah (s) was neither tall, such that he would stand out, nor was he short. He was not albino-white (al-abyad al-amhaq), nor was he deep black (adam). His hair was neither very curly nor completely straight. Allah commissioned him towards the end of his fortieth year. He remained in Mecca for ten years and in Medina for ten years. Allah caused him to pass away at the turn of his sixtieth year and there was not found on his head and beard [as much as] twenty white hairs.”

This report does not stand in contradiction to the other reports according to which the Prophet was dark brown-skinned, because asmar is not adam. According to classifications of the Arabic linguists such al-Tha’labi, adam is a more excessive blackness than asmar. What is therefore denied here is that Muhammad was one of the excessively black Arabs, like the Banu Sulaym maybe.

Bukhari reports the following in his Sahih (Volume 4, Book 56, Number 744):

“Narrated Isma'il b. Abi Khalid: ‘I heard Abu Juhayfa saying, "I saw the Prophet, and Al-Hasan b. Ali resembled him." I said to Abu- Juhaifa, "Describe him for me." He said, "He was abyad and his beard was black with some white hair. He promised to give us 13 young she-camels, but he expired before we could get them."

This report and similar ones have caused no limit of trouble for moderns. The term used here to describe the Prophet’s complexion is abyad.  This term usually means ‘white’ in contexts not related to human complexion. It is the term normally used to denote the whiteness of such objects as milk, teeth, ect. However, Classical Arabic has a linguistic phenomenon called al-addad, which we call antiphrasis today, in which in certain contexts a word signifies its lexical opposite. Abyad is the classical example of this phenomenon. Thus A. Morabia, writing in the Encyclopedia of Islam (s.v. Lawn), notes:

"One of the most striking manifestations of the symbolic connotations of colours among the Arabs, is the phenomenon of opposites (al-addad). We have seen, in studying the semantic value of certain adjectives of colour, that they were sometimes capable of embracing two diametrically opposite meanings. This phenomenon is particularly to be noted in the case of white and black...To signify wine, the Arabs used a number of euphemisms of the type 'the fair drink', 'the golden one', etc...Even today, in certain parts of the Orient and the Maghrib, in order to avoid pronouncing the word 'black'...opposites are used. In Morrocco, al-abyad sometimes denotes tar or coal." 

In the context of human complexions, the term abyad assumes its didd sense and means ‘black’.  But in Classical Arabic there are several distinct ‘blacknessess’ or ‘shades of blackness’ as pointed out by both al-Tha‘labīb in his Fiqh al-lugha [82-82] as well as al-Asyuti in his Jawāhir al-‘uqud wa-mu’īn al-qudāt wal-muwaqqi’īn wal-shuhūd [II: 574]. Abyad/bayad is a particular shade or ‘type’ of blackness. According to the important Syrian hadith scholar and historian of Islam, Shāms al-Dīn Abū `Abd Allāh al-Dhahabī (d. 1348), in his Siyar a’lām al-nubalā’ [II:168]:

“When Arabs say, ‘so-and-so is white (abyad),’ they mean a golden brown complexion with a black appearance (al-hintī al-lawn bi-hilya sudā’). Like the complexion of the people of India, brown and black (asmar wa ādam), i.e. a clear, refined blackness (sawad al-takrūr).”

This means that when abyad is used to describe the human complexion, it means a refined black complexion [free of blemishes] with a golden-brown hue. This golden brown hue is no doubt due to the luminosity or glow that is also implied by the term abyad: the gloss and sheen (saqala wa safa’) that sits on and thus interacts with a refined black complexion. This most popular description of the Prophet as abyad is thus consistent with the above reports according to which the Prophet had a dark-brown complexion.

Abyad/bayad as a description of human complexion is to be distinguished from ahmar, red, which also has a didd – sense when used of human complexions. Though red is a dark color, when used of human complexion it means white-skinned or fair-skinned. Ibn Manzur [Lisan al-arab IV: 209, 210] notes:

“The Arabs don’t say a man is white [or: “white man,” rajul abyad] due to a white complexion. Rather, whiteness [al-abyad] with them means an external appearance that is free from blemish [al-zahir al-naqi min al-‘uqub]; when they mean a white complexion they say ‘red’ (ahmar)… when the Arabs say, ‘so-and-so is white (abyad – bayad), they [only] mean a noble character (al-karam fi l-akhlaq), not skin color. It is when they say ‘so-and-so is red’ (ahmar – hamra’) that they mean white skin. And the Arabs attribute white skin to the slaves.”

“Red (al-hamra’) refers to non-Arabs due to their fair complexion which predominates among them. And the Arabs used to say about the non-Arabs with whom white skin was characteristic, such as the Romans, Persians, and their neighbors: ‘They are red-skinned (al-hamra’)…” al-hamra’ means the Persians and Romans…And the Arabs attribute white skin to the slaves.”

The vast majority of the reports in the Classical collections describe the Prophet Muhammad as black/brown-skinned (abyad/asmar). There are a few reports, however, generated no doubt by non-Arab converts to Islam like the Persians, which describe the Prophet as white-skinned, abyad al-lawn mushrab humra (Ibn Sa’d, Kitab al-tabaqat al-kabir, I/i,120, 121,122, 124, 129 (Ar.); Baladhuri, Ansab, I: 391 § 836; 394 § 848). I have shown the secondary nature of these reports. This description is absent from al-Bukhari and many of the early Classical texts. It becomes popular only in the later, medieval period when non-Arabs dominated the intellectual life of the Muslims.  On this development see my article “ ’Anyone who says that the Prophet is black should be killed’ : The De-Arabization of Islam and the Transfiguration of Muhammad in Islamic Tradition,”


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Khidr Amari
Leni from what I overstood there are two Races/groups/people/antithetical opposites of each other according to the Qur'an. Al Jinn and Al Ins (Adamites).

The Jinn are qawmun (people) living on earth as Basharan (human beings) and Al ins (A...damites) are also Basharan (human beings) living on earth. Al Jinn are created from Scorched/heated clay and Al Ins (Adamites) was created from Black smooth mud.

Both comes from Iblis and Adam we are either from one or the other. Now there has been a interbreeding of both. But from what I know the Jinn scorched/heated clay produces whiteness so this leads me to the Europeans at least initially and Adam who was from black mud has the color of black/dark/brown complexion. 

When you read Qur'an you'll see that Iblis didn't refused to yield to Adam not just because Iblis was created from scorching wind/flameless fire but also Iblis made mention of Adam's black skin.See More
September 11 at 7:10pm · LikeUnlike

Khidr Amari So we have on earth two distinctive blood lines one of Iblis and one of Adam.
September 11 at 7:11pm · LikeUnlike

Leni Amir Lebherz
hmmm I have never heard of you have the Quranic sources for the split? the Iblis one would have qualities of the shatan if logic follows right, meaning the white people? and the black would be the true people so to speak who ...are those to really be followed and who have been blessed by Allah (swt)...but still does this still not contradict the verse I stated...maybe we can look to the tafsir of that verse to get some answers...also every one was destroyed in the flood of Noah right (pbhh) and from what I heard we get the splits of all the people from there and his sons...would make sense right?See More
September 11 at 7:18pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Khidr Amari Brother Leni, if you add me I will add you to my group there are substantial proof from Quranic ayats telling us about two distinctive qawmun (people) living on earth. Allah tells us to study His Book, the Qur'an is its own exegesis/tafsir.
September 11 at 7:20pm · LikeUnlike

Leni Amir Lebherz awesome man...i am always in on discussion. thanks.
September 11 at 7:20pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Khidr Amari That is why its good to study the truth about the color of people because Allah said He would make Prophets coming from Prophet Ibrahim and they would be descendants one from another all coming directly from Adam to Ibrahim. Righteousness is those who believe in Allah and perform good deeds but color has its place.
September 11 at 7:24pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Abdel Karim Hisham Ibrahim
Salam is an example of the sickness i was referring to..........bear in mind that at least 50% of Sudanese who claim an Arab origin belong in the shadeed ulduma catergory of black…while 30-40% lie within the asmar category…...while the rest is abyud( the real abyud that is ) or even lighter because of Turkish admixture

Aug 2, 2006 (KHARTOUM) — At the crowded Beauty Queen parlour in Sudan’s capital Khartoum, beautician Selma Awa says she just cannot understand why so many of her clients want to get their skin lightened.

"One hundred percent of women who come here have it done," she said. "People think it’s prettier to look white. In my opinion, dark is prettier. I don’t know who they want to look like."

In many countries in Africa, the Middle East and Asia lighter-coloured skin is considered prettier and paler women are believed to be wealthier, more educated and more desirable.

This attitude has led to a boom in the use of skin-lightening products in Sudan, a vast country torn by war where skin colour also has political connotations.

Rasha Moussa, a maid, pulls some skin-whitening cream from her handbag.

"I use it on my face to make my face shine. The Sudanese see the light colour as better than dark. I think it’s a complex that we have," she said.

"People judge you here by your colour ... If they see me and someone else with lighter skin wearing the same clothes, they would say she is living a comfortable life and I’m a poor woman," she added.

Millions of women throughout Africa use creams and soaps containing chemicals, like hydroquinone, to lighten the colour of their skin. But the creams can cause long-term damage.

Dermatologists say prolonged use of hydroquinone and mercury-based products, also found in some creams, destroys the skin’s protective outer layer. Eventually the skin starts to burn, itch or blister, becomes extremely sensitive to sunlight and then turns even blacker than before.

Prolonged use can damage the nerves or even lead to kidney failure or skin cancer and so prove fatal.

"It’s a very bad problem here. It sometimes kills the patient ... It’s bad, bad news," said a doctor at a Khartoum hospital. He said the number of women coming to the dermatology department with problems caused by skin-whitening treatments had grown to at least one in four of all dermatology patients.


In Khartoum, skin-whitening creams are displayed prominently in stores and on roadside adverts. Products advertised on Arab television channels promise the creams will also make a woman more confident and glamorous.

In one advert, a previously unremarkable female television presenter delivers a stunning report after using whitening cream. Her handsome male colleague, who has previously ignored her, says: "You were great. What are you doing at four?"

In another, a singer leaves the stage with stage fright but returns after lightening her skin and performs wonderfully.

At the Modern Style bridal store, an array of skin-whitening creams adorn the front desk. Next door, a photography studio displays wedding portraits of women with very pale skin.

Modern Style’s Egyptian owner Samira Magar tied the growing preference for white wedding dresses, which are not traditional in Sudan, to the desire for pale skin.

"More Sudanese are getting white wedding dresses, so they want to look like Egyptians and Europeans," she said.

"I think it’s an inferiority complex. They think that if they’re white in colour, they are more beautiful," she added.

Magar said some women had resorted to mercury and harsh prescription creams not meant for cosmetic use, leaving their faces disfigured on their wedding day.


Natural methods of skin whitening have been used for centuries, Magar said, but in Sudan the use of chemicals began in the 1980s and has thrived since.

The doctor at the Khartoum hospital, who declined to be named, said the creams now used can cause irritation and infection, blotching, eczema, and that most contain steroids.

The doctor said that rather than ask why women use the creams, men should be asked why they prefer pale skin.

"Here, all men want to sit with or marry a woman with light skin. If any man wants to marry, he says the first choice is for a woman with light skin ... Why is this?"

While a tan can be seen as something of a status symbol in the West, darker skin marks out women in Africa, the Middle East and Asia as poorer people who have no choice but to toil under the hot sun.

In Sudan, Africa’s biggest country, over two decades of civil war between lighter-skinned northerners and darker southerners has given skin tone more sinister connotations, and the meaning of the various shades is nuanced.

Northerners, who are mainly Muslims and claim Arab lineage, have traditionally held power. A north-south coalition government now shares power after a peace deal last year.

During civil strife, skin tone often meant the difference between life and death. Southerners, traditionally Christian or animist, complain of prejudice against them in everyday life, and some northerners privately claim superiority over their darker and non-Arab countrymen.

(Reuters)See More
September 11 at 7:55pm · LikeUnlike

Abdel Karim Hisham Ibrahim
Bear in mind also that in Africa western images dominate the Television...and white women are seen as the most beautiful.......those who are Christian watch films/documentaries about the Bible and ALL the characters are 'white' is the... same with the African Muslims....all the films/ docu-dramas depicting the history of Islam are 99.9% white actors...with Bilal ibn Rabah being the ONLY person who is dark......there is very little if any positive images in regards to the history where black people are portrayed....this then breeds an inferiority complex.......and this complex passes from one generation to another...however once this truth hits them...both the Christians and the can act as an effective cure to this desease and break the spell of white supremacy....but the spell of white supremacy is very well organised and well established which just means we have a lot of work to doSee More
September 11 at 8:11pm · LikeUnlike

Khidr Amari Unfortunately Brother Abdel Karim Hisham Ibrahim, what you have presented has its origin in Qur'an between Iblis and his pride/arrogance and rebelliousness against Allah's command to yield to Adam. This racism against Blackness is foretold to us by the Most High and any one who imitates Iblis/Shayatan is a Shayatin (devil).
September 11 at 8:11pm · LikeUnlike · 2 peopleLoading...

Khidr Amari There is much work to do Brother Abdel Karim Hisham Ibrahim, Alhumduillah and as long as we have strong and dedicated brothers such as your self and Brother Wesley Muhammad, Tariq Berry and others exposing the lies we will bring true justice insha Allah.
September 11 at 8:13pm · LikeUnlike · 2 peopleLoading...

Abdel Karim Hisham Ibrahim
Khidr Amari I agree 100%......and i have also noted your commentary on the race of Jinn and the tribe of Ibyss and it all ties in very nicely with the incident between Iblyss and is a sentive topic because people will say that is racism in reverse......but is it really?....i don't think so....although i'll keep an open mind to hear all views but i am very much leaning towards the same understanding as you if you know what i meanSee More
September 11 at 8:19pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Khidr Amari
Alhumduillah Brother Abdel Karim Hisham Ibrahim, I have thoroughly studied the Jinn topic and there is irrefutable evidence that the Jinn are not unseen/invisible/supernatural beings living between the sky and the earth this is their lies b...ecause Allah says they see us where we can't see them basically saying their true identity but they are qawmun (people) like Al Ins (Adamite) Allah clearly addresses Bani Adam, or Al Insi and Al Jinn 36 times together throughout the Qur'an. If you would like Abdel, come to the group and read some of the discussions we have had about the Jinn I will invite you if you don't mind and yo can share your thoughts.See More
September 11 at 8:24pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Khidr Amari
It's clear now Bro that Al Jinn are people like you and I and I see where all the racism comes from similar to what Elijah Muhammad said about the White man being the devil. 

Hence, Allah says in Qur'an in Surah 72 that within the people o...f the Jinn there are believers/Muslims but most of them are on divergent/deviant paths. And within Al Jinn and Al Insi (Adamites) there are Shayatin (devils) also. To me its clear and it's not a racist statement but I believe the pure Jinn are the ones who promotes White Supremacy, Racism, Oppression, disbelief...etc.See More
September 11 at 8:28pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Dustin Quick This is peace; great read as always Bro. Wesley.
September 11 at 9:03pm · LikeUnlike

Abdel Karim Hisham Ibrahim Well i think some of them have half admitted this themselves by stating that non-Africans are a SEPERATE creation to blacks......i believe i posted a youtube link for this some time ago...anyway i'll continue to read so thanks for the invite
September 11 at 9:05pm · LikeUnlike

Dustin Quick
When one studies history objectively, he/she will see that from the day my people appeared on this earth, they have caused death and destruction amongst the original peoples of the Earth. There must be a relationship between cave living, a ...lack of vitamin D, and aggressive and abnormal sexual behaviours etc. While I do not think biology is the be-all-end-all (anyone's heart can be purified by Allah's mercy and guidance if they are truly sincere--THEM taught this), I do think it plays a part. The Black Man and Woman has given the world civilization, science, math, religious traditions, prophets, the temple of the spirit of Christ (i.e., Jesus), etc. All these things must be recognized and taught in religion and our schools (regardless of the type or context). That's the basis for a true enlightening educationSee More
September 11 at 9:11pm · LikeUnlike · 3 peopleLoading...

Dustin Quick Peace to the Universal Family
September 11 at 9:12pm · LikeUnlike · 2 peopleLoading...

Dustin Quick ‎@ Leni ASA bro; didn't think I'd see you in this topic LOL. You're definitely on to something, though! Mashallah.
September 11 at 11:41pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

King Suli Shabazz cracka cant be not muslim or moor
September 12 at 8:26am · LikeUnlike

Tha Negus ‎"In Islam Does the Color of the Prophet(s) Matter?" No.
September 12 at 10:44am · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Tha Negus
the color of the believers' matter, however. if he was a whiteman, how would that effect the message of Koran for the blacks? if he was a blackman, how would that effect the message of Koran for whites? this obstacle is a locked gate to par...adise for both peoples...(and anyone else that consider themselves "other", in between or mixed. ha!) the idea of following a blackman to some white people is impossible. also, the idea of a blackman following a whiteman is impossible, after Elijah Muhammad, and others, have taught that white is a race of devils. so, each will be stuck until the exhaustion of time searching to unravel the documents of his true color. and declare others to be heretics that do not follow their rule. the real deal/real talk side of this, in my understanding, is that none have to worry. Muhammad the prophet is dead. As are his companions...So, nobody "follows" him, anymore. He mentions that a generation, i think it is, after him, will not be of him. so, there it is, Iran, included. the world, in general, and moslems in specific, should study Koran without any hangups. the Koran existed before prophet Muhammad (may the peace and honor of Allah be upon him) . Allah reveiled the Koran to Muhammad, so it had to BE forfore it was given. Allah was a blackman then. Allah is a blackman, now. but, he has no skin color...See More
September 12 at 11:09am · LikeUnlike

King Suli Shabazz wtf
September 12 at 2:29pm · LikeUnlike

Raul Qaddafi What is hurting Islam the most is Arab racism. They keep secluding themselves more and more, yet still want us to fight for them. They are racists (many of them, of course not all of them)
September 12 at 4:33pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Ainutlatuinen Muhammad This is deep. This is like setting off a bomb
September 12 at 6:20pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Leni Amir Lebherz ... please take the time to watch this 7 part lecture inshAllah from a my favorite Cultural theorist...this is why yes although things should be respected and that there may be truths, it does not ...always matter because we all make choices to submit to OUR Creator in different ways...and that is what makes us human ;) and why (the importance) we are talking about this in the first place.See More
September 13 at 11:29am · LikeUnlike

James Small Does thruth that was known and practice b tens of millions of Africans before this prophet, Have any relevence.
September 13 at 12:48pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Wesley Muhammad ‎James Small: Absolutely Beloved. As I stated in the past, the truth taught by this Prophet, in the Qur'an for example, can best be understood in the context of that prior African Tradition of Truth, as codified in the Pyramid Texts of Kemet for example.
September 13 at 1:02pm · LikeUnlike

Leni Amir Lebherz
if the answer to this question is yes, then within the same context this also matters: "Mahmud ibn Lubayd reported, "Allah's messenger [pbuh] said: "The thing I fear for you the most is ash-Shirk al-Asghar."
The companions asked "Oh! messe...nger of Allah, what is that?" He replied "Ar-Riya (showing off), for verily Allah will say on the Day of Resurrection when people are receiving their rewards, 'Go to those for whom you were showing off in the material world and see if you can find any reward from them."See More
September 13 at 8:35pm · LikeUnlike

Wesley Muhammad Leni Amir Lebherz: what is your definition of "showing off" and how is this relevant to this particular post?
September 13 at 8:37pm · LikeUnlike

Leni Amir Lebherz definition of showing off is doing something (conciously or unconciously) so that other people will see and that one thinks they will get their rewards from them, rather than Allah (swt) first. Because if one was doing something... for Allah (swt) purly, the race of the Prophet(s) (pbut) would not matter and those who perpetually advance the argument in the direction that is does matter, then they themselves have a role to play in something which Allah (swt) gave them no right because it is Him who says that He sent Muhammad 'only as a mercy for all the universe'. In the case of race 'showing off' is the only thing that is possible because race is discursive and never fixed and something that is only given meaning through language discourse in systems of classification, where what really matters is how we make sense of those differences in representations of power knowledge. So this is relevant because we are asking if this is connected or if Islam is concerned with this...Islam which is the reality that there is One indivisible Supreme, Eternal, Infinite and Unique entity, Allah (swt) who alone without partner or any association to anything else created everything and how Allah (swt) functions in Its purpose to be understood in the same way.See More
September 13 at 10:17pm · LikeUnlike

Jane X Sauvage It matters if the truth has been obscured by lies. Especially lies which further enslave via feelings of inferiority.
September 14 at 2:58am · LikeUnlike

Leni Amir Lebherz salaam sister, if it did not matter when the first inferior Muslims with Muhammad (pbuh) first started to put into action what Allah (swt) ordered them and to tell the people that...lā ʾilāha ʾillallāh, Muḥammad rasūlu-llā why should it matter now? Is it your 'race' that causes you to struggle and perform jihad in the path of Allah (swt) or is it Allah (swt) alone without any partner or accociation alone?
September 14 at 8:00am · LikeUnlike

Wesley Muhammad Leni, you clearly have not read this Note. Please refrain from commenting until you actually read the Note, then comment on the contents of the Note.
September 14 at 8:06am · LikeUnlike

Leni Amir Lebherz there is a big difference between describing what he or other Prophets (pbut) looked like and giving honest accounts of them, to using that and trying to further ones own aganda...which the Prophet(s) (pbut) or any of their followers in pre-modern Islam or whenever never did, or making it a point once so ever. Is that part of your Note?
September 14 at 8:30am · LikeUnlike

Wesley Muhammad Why dont you read my Note and tell me Leni. Until then, you will not be allowed to simply come over here to dogmatically preach to me. Read the Note, and correct my presentation with evidence, or keep it moving. No Kutbas over here. This is your warning. Either respect the material and disagree with it with evidence of your own, or be still. No preaching.
September 14 at 8:35am · LikeUnlike

Leni Amir Lebherz
ok, how about at least returning my salaams first :) though. And remember I am indifferent, my position is yes there are truths and I respect those and also the matters that have been obscured by lies but my number one priority is Islam and... the preservation of the Sunnah and that is why I do not believe that it matters...both from the Sunah it self and also cultural theory about the issue of 'colour'. I respect you for saying "correct my presentation with evidence, or keep it moving"...can you please do the same with my earlier post then and what do you think about race being a 'floating signifier'...?See More
September 14 at 8:44am · LikeUnlike

Wesley Muhammad
Salaams Leni. This post is not about the viability of the concept of "race". I dont use that term or evoke that concept here. I will thus not debate you on the merits of that concept. Again, had you actually read this post you would know Leni, My patience is running thin. Respond to my actual post - based in an actual reading of it - or keep it moving. Do not use red herrings to distract from the point - the Prophet was a black-skinned Arab and the popular, ORTHODOX Islamic claim that he was a white-skinned Arab is lie, a lie authored by those who detested the Prophet's own people, black-skinned Arabs.See More
September 14 at 8:51am · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Leni Amir Lebherz
wow, your patince are running thin already eh? after what 5 or so ok. MashAllah, whatever makes one feel of worth and gives their identity meaning - alhamdulillah. I have no right to say anything about that, that is your job to d......eal with that as the individual and the fitra you were born with...but as for Islam, no it is not concerned with something as insignificant as the colour of one's skin. This within the context of the main message of the Quran but not real life horrors of racism in history and what black people have to deal with on a daily basis, something which I will never really know, but do try and understand...and why there should be a balance between the colour discussion not being un-islamic but also not to be used to distinguish colour having anything to do with one's individual piety and their actions or deeds.See More
September 16 at 7:25pm · LikeUnlike

Hakeem Mateen
You are right people don't like to discuss the color of Muhammad (pbwh) because of lack of understand and intelligence when you use skin color to enhance your being it shows that you don't fully understand God will to prophet hood it's the ...act that each one of them did towards human life.If we as humans in Islam had a 1% of their will to fight the FOE of our faith we wouldn't even be talking on this level.I see tribalism everyday here in LONG BEACH,CALIFORNIA it's very sadd too because this city political arena hates Muslims.They dance for these city people laugh when nothing funny when they should be pleasing one another for the sake of Allah(swt).I've always said there's nothing wrong with Islam it's MAN that corrupts our faith.NOW FOR YOU AFRICANS ON EARTH:Stop being so damn fearful of being Great or knowing Greatness in your clan (Race)everybody else Loves to hear about their greatness when talking about their clan/race.Don't worry they wont kill you may kill you politically but never the less have faith with ACTION and Allah(swt) will help you INSHA ALLAH(Remember Allah(swt)only helps those that help self that goes for us as a Brotherhood & Sisterhood in Islam.See More
September 17 at 8:05am · LikeUnlike

Gabriel K. AbdulRahman AlRomaani
My dear brothers and sisters: as I have stated in the other note, I will debate Wesley on an aqeedah issue which in one way or the other will deal with color, but not the way Wesley is trying to spell it out for you. You see as I have acc...used Wesley before he has a reason behind these so called academic papers talking about colors of prophets from a afrocentric point of view. Now I don't want Wesley to come up here and keep shouting debate debate, you are debating me let's debate the color of the prophet. I have already made it clear that our debate will be on aqeedah, however I feel that the readers should know the reality of this issue, and see how Wesley and many others like him (especially Christian missionaries - colonizers) academically twist information claiming Arabic and claiming knowledge of Quran and Sunnah. So this is to all the readers, our organization is working on a paper right now that will show not only the historicity of this fact, but the academic dishonesty and twisting that Wesley has taken,,,, to slowly drag people into believing the ideology that he follows, namely that the black man is divine, is a god. People can read this paper, as I will post the link here. And again so we don't loose spirit ISLAM IS NOT ABOUT WHAT Wesley wants you to think it is, Yes muslims discussed the looks of the prohet, his attributes his ring, his hair and so on,,, but they did not make an AQEEDAH OR A THEOLOGY BASED ON THAT. Wesley is spending his whole life and so does the nation and people like them preaching this notion as a theology, which goes against Islam. One only has to read the farewell speech of the prohet to see what Islam stands for in terms of race, and one only has to read the ayat "O you men! surely We have created you of a male and a female, and made you tribes and families that you may know each other; surely the most honorable of you with Allah is the one among you most careful (of his duty); surely Allah is Knowing, Aware." (Al Hujuraat 49 : 13).See More
September 17 at 2:01pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Gabriel K. AbdulRahman AlRomaani
I am sure Wesley will not have an issue with me posting here as many people are posting here, and it was again him who invited me by tagging me in this note, and just as he wrote this paper (not as a debate, but as academic), we will write ...a paper not as a debate just for information that exposes ACADEMIC TWISTING. May Allah (by that I mean the creator of the heavens and the earth) guide us to the truth, the truth which respects color and nationality but does not make it a theology, a racist movement, a nationalistic movement, rather a truth that is based on the righteousness of humans, of those who submit and become real slaves. Let's remove the shackle of colonialism and white racism, and at the same time the shackles of what such things resulted in mainly reactionary racism (africans became racist themselves). Such things are only the works of Shaitan to saw enmity between the sons of Adam.See More
September 17 at 2:08pm · LikeUnlike · 1 personLoading...

Wesley Muhammad
Well welcome back Gabriel. No, I do not at all mind you posting your link here. I very much look forward to reading the paper. So you and your “organization” of Middle Eastern cohorts are preparing an “Academic” response to my work, an acad...emically trained so-called Negro in America, follower of the Most Hon. Elijah Muhammad via his son, the Hon Bro Min. Farrakhan? It is about damn time! It is about time that you all have taken proper notice of what Allah is blessing me to do, and treat it as the serious threat that it actually is to the dogmatic edifice that you all are so invested in and misnomerly call “Islam”; an edifice the pillars of which are racism/white supremacy, misogyny, and spookism. This dogmatic edifice that you and your “organization” seek to protect and preserve is as distinct and distant from the Islam of the Black Arab Prophet Muhammad b. Abd Allah and his (mainly) Black Arab Sahaba (Companions) as the night is distinct from the day and the west is distant from the east. I readily accept the challenge to debate you on the subject of Aqidah: Can Allah Come in the Person of a Man? I look forward to you and your cohorts attempt to demonstrate that I have “academically twisted” the Arabic Qur’an and Sunna, but more so I look forward to demonstrating that the edifice that you are protecting is itself a “dogmatic twisting” of the Qur’an and Sunna. 

Gabriel al-Romaani – the Roman – you remind me of two scriptures. The first is Gen 9:27, wherein it is stated that God “shall enlarge Japhet and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem”. This should be read in the context of the following report found in the Rabbinic text Pirqa Rabbi Elizer 28a

“Noah brought his sons and his grandsons, and he blessed them with their (several) settlements, and he gave the as an inheritance all the earth. He especially blessed Shem and his sons, black but comely, and he gave them the inhabitable earth. He blessed Ham and his sons, black like a raven, and he gave them as an inheritance the coast of the sea. He blessed Japheth and his sons, they entirely white, and he gave them for an inheritance the desert and its fields; these (are the inheritances with) which he endowed them.”

See Gabriel al-Romaani, the Semites were a black-skinned Africoid people, and Japheth a white-skinned, Indo-European people, like your Romans. Gen 9:27 indicates that – by God’s permission no doubt – the white Europoid Japhites have taken up residence “in the tents of” of the black-skinned Semites, the Black Arabs. By this is meant that they have appropriated the ways, the language, and the religion of the Black Semites. But they did not leave these as is. They changed them.

The second scripture that you remind me of is the following hadith tradition by the Prophet Muhammad:

"Zayd b. Aslam related that the Prophet (s) saw a vision and told his companions about it. He said: “I saw a group of black sheep and a group of white sheep then mixed with them [until the white sheep became so numerous that the black sheep could no longer be seen in the herd of sheep.] I interpreted it to mean that [the black sheep are the Arabs. They will accept Islam and become many. As for the white sheep, they are the non-Arabs (i.e. Persians, Turks, Byzantines, ect.)] They will enter Islam and then share with you your wealth and your genealogy [and become so numerous that the Arabs will not be noticed amongst them.]” The Companions became surprised by what he (s) said. Then one said, “The non-Arab Persians will enter our land, O’ Messenger of Allah?!” The Prophet (s) then said, “Yes. By He Who Has my soul in His Hand, if the religion was hanging on the distant star, men from the non-Arab Persians would reach it and the luckiest of them would be the people of Faris.”

Here the Holy Prophet saw that non-Arab white converts to Islam – the white sheep – will eventually appropriate not only the religion from the Black Arabs, but ALSO their geneology and identity. The white converts to Islam – Romans, Persians, Turks – entered the religion and then eventually robbed Islam of its very soul; they de-Arabized it and, as a result, de-Africanized it. It is this de-Arabized, de-Africanized “Islam” that you and your Middle Eastern cohorts seek to protect and preserve. I look forward to the day that I can have the opportunity to directly engage this dogmatic edifice and its guardians.
In closing, you claim that the color of the Prophet was never a matter of theology or Aqidah in “Islam”. I leave you with the words of the famouis Qadi Iyad (d. 544/1149), in his canonical al-Shif§, who reported: 

“Ahmad b. Abi Sulayman, the companion of Sahnun, said, ‘Anyone who says that the Prophet was black (aswad) should be killed. The Prophet was not black’.”

That is quite a dogmatic statement found often in later Islamic literature.See More
September 17 at 6:34pm · LikeUnlike · 2 peopleLoading...

Gabriel K. AbdulRahman AlRomaani Don't get too excited Wesley it might be bad for your heart and with all due respect you loose credibility. You assume too much before knowing LITTLE.
Sunday at 7:17am · LikeUnlike

Gabriel K. AbdulRahman AlRomaani Let me correct first on your understanding of my name first of Allah so it does not become a habit for you to keep bringing it up - not sure if that is very academic?
Sunday at 7:19am · LikeUnlike

Gabriel K. AbdulRahman AlRomaani
Al Roumaani - means the ROMANIAN - AL ROOMI would mean the Roman dear PHD sir. Al Roumaani or the Romanian shows that I come from Romania as my last name Keresztes has been short formed for K. because I was named by ancestors who decided t...o name themselves something THAT HAS A MEANING THAT TOTALLY GOES AGAINST ISLAM, shows hatred towards Islam, and is totally racist and has caused the lives of millions of Muslims. So I have changed that, as I did not have a choice over my name when I was born. Just like Al Bukhari the famous muhadith comes from Al Bukhara, and Al Albani comes from Albania, and ibn Hazm al Andalusi comes from Andalusia (Spain), and it has been nothing new in Islam, I think you should refrain to bring this up in MOST OF YOUR POSTS AGAINST ME, AS IT ONLY SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE NOTHING BETTER TO DO. DO WAIT for our paper, and by the way OUR MIDDLE EASTERN EDIFICE is a WINDSOR BASED (CANADIAN) non profit organization that deals with people who claim that they know Islam and write papers on it trying to misguide others. We are very CANADIAN MY FRIEND, YOU CAN EVEN SAY AMERICAN AS WINDSOR IS THE BACKYARD OF DETROIT, MICHIGAN. But you just wait for the paper than you can see for yourself. THE BEST AMONGST YOU IS THE ONE IN PIETY - AS ALLAH SAYS, NOT THE ONE IN COLOR - IT SEEMS THAT YOU MISSED THE WHOLE POINT OF ISLAM.See More

Sunday at 7:29am · LikeUnlike

Wesley Muhammad Gabriel, I am of course well aware that in Classical Arabic the Byzantines are called al-Rum. However, I am also aware of the fact that the Romanians, at least by one popular etiology, derive or claim descent from the ancient Romans. The very name "Romania" comes from the Latin romanus, i.e. "citizen of Rome".
Sunday at 8:58am · LikeUnlike

Gabriel K. AbdulRahman AlRomaani
If you are aware my friend than one can only wonder why did you even bring it up with relation to my name? Of course as everyone can see in your comment above, it is out of racism, a racism that NATION OF ISLAM builds in people due to thei...r belief that light skinned people have somehow attacked the dark skinned, they are devils who have changed the religion of the dark skinned. Your theology is a theology that leads people into hatred. What SOME people have done in the past has lead the Afro Americans into a reactionary movement, just as it happened with the NASIBIS (THE SHIA LOVED THE PROPHET 'S FAMILY SO MUCH AND HATED THE SAHABA, SO OUT OF REACTION THERE CAME A GROUP THAT SHOWED HATE FOR SOME MEMBERS OF THE PROHET'S FAMILY). The Afro Americans began a movement that made them fall into what they themselves were fighting against, and you are a scholar helping them to do that. MY name is used only to show where I was born, and nothing more. I see your comment with reference to my name only a cheap attempt to gain some sympathy from the readers, a debate tactic (and I have followed your videos and I must say you are good at it), that will not take you far with me, inch Allah.See More
Sunday at 2:35pm · LikeUnlike

Gabriel K. AbdulRahman AlRomaani “Prophet Muhammad said: “O people! Your God is one and your forefather (Adam) is one. An Arab is not better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab is not better than an Arab, and a red (i.e. white) person is not better than a black person and a black person is not better than a red person, except in piety.” Narrated in Musnad Ahmad, #22978.
Sunday at 2:47pm · LikeUnlike

Gabriel K. AbdulRahman AlRomaani
From the last sermon of the prophet sas the color of any person matters NOT, however Wesley is still insisting in his DOGMATIC (NOI) statements and does not realize that he is only building hatred and racism. Instead of following the true t...eachings of Islam he is going against what the prophet sas said. Imagine if it's the last thing you say to address a group.. Imagine it's the last thing YOU SAY, and you tell people that SKIN color does not show superiority does not give you any privileges. So does the skin color of anyone matter? Sadaka RasulAllah, he has conveyed the message and we bear witness that we oppose racism, we oppose injustice and we oppose any DOGMA that separates humans based on skin colors and not based on PIETY.
“Prophet Muhammad said: “O people! Your God is one and your forefather (Adam) is one. An Arab is not better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab is not better than an Arab, and a red (i.e. white) person is not better than a black person and a black person is not better than a red person, except in piety.” Narrated in Musnad Ahmad, #22978.
My dear brothers and sisters who have fallen to believe the theology of NOI, please FEAR ALLAH and obey Him and His prophet. There are no prophets after him, NOR MESSENGERS. Prophet Muhamamd sas said Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established.... (2) till about thirty Dajjals (liars) appear, and each one of them will claim that he is Allah's Apostle...." (Sahih Bukhari Vol 8, Book 88, #237) The part quoted is also reported in Sahih Muslim Book 041, #6988 He also said Narated By Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "My similitude in comparison with the other prophets before me, is that of a man who has built a house nicely and beautifully, except for a place of one brick in a corner. The people go about it and wonder at its beauty, but say: 'Would that this brick be put in its place!' So I am that brick, and I am the last of the Prophets." (Sahih Bukhari Vol 4, Book 56, # 735 and Sahih Muslim Book 30, # 5673) This hadith is also narrated by Jabir bin Abdullah in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim.See More
Sunday at 3:05pm · LikeUnlike

Wesley Muhammad
Gabriel K. AbdulRahman AlRomaani, as I said in my Status recently, dont come over here preaching or khutaba-ing us. Put up or shut up. You have insisted that you wont debate the subject of the Prophet's black-ness, so dont come here trying... to preach about it and its alleged lack of relevance. You have decided to push the debate to next summer, so next summer it is. Till then, you will not be given a pass to preach your Aryanized Islam on my page. Notice served.See More
Sunday at 6:12pm · LikeUnlike


Beautiful said...

(Majestic Qur’an): Surah: One

In the (Beautiful) Majesty of the Glorious-Loving One,
The Infinite Good (of unbounded Love & Generosity),
The Most Beautiful-(Loving).

1:1 All the (Beautiful) Perfect Majestic Qualities, All the
(beautiful-gifts) & (talents) and All the (thanks) & (gratitude) belongs to
the Glorious-Loving One, the Loving-Nurturer, the Beautifier, the Cherisher,
the Sustainer and the Nourisher unto perfection of all the Universes and all
the Systems of scientific (Wisdom), (Intelligence) & (Knowledge),

1:2 The Infinite Good (of unbounded Love & Generosity)
Who out of His nurturing-love continuously initiates and
(showers) His unbounded (blissful-love), (nourishments) &
(beautiful-gifts) to all His creatures without their asking or deserving,
The Most Beautiful-(Loving)
Who out of His nurturing-love gives a great manifold reward to any
(good) action done by His creatures,

1:3 Supreme Master of the Period of Reward & Requital and Accountability,

1:4 Thee do we serve in devotional-love and Thee do we seek for Divine help.

1:5 Guide us with kindness on the harmonic balance path

1:6 The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed Your bliss and gracious gifts,

1:7 Not those upon whom wrath is brought down, nor those who go astray.

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